[operafan71 offline]

Gone are the good 'ol days of responsibility. Up next, family sues iPhone for teen's texting and driving accident.

This is tragic for the family, but I find myself being a lot less sympathetic because of their lawsuit.

[glenpittman offline]

This is one of the most stupid things I have heard in a while. Strava only gives you a means of measuring your time and comparing to other people's times. No one can tell you that you need to be better than someone else, you decide that for yourself. It's time for people to start taking responsibility for their actions and quit blaming others. Enough of the horsecrap.

My thoughts and prayers go out to those who were affected, but the cyclist is the only one to blame.

[glenpittman offline]

This discussion has been going on for some time now in another mtb website. Basically, the argument condensed down to "Is Strava KOM inadvertently encouraging bikers to ride recklessly when they wouldn't otherwise?" When you think about it, it does provide a motivator for the more competitive types to take chances that they wouldn't otherwise take.

Does that mean that this family has grounds to sue? Of course not. But you always have to be careful about encouraging bad behavior, even if it is in a roundabout way. Remember why Dominoes quit promising delivery in 30 minutes or less? Yeah, to quit indirectly encouraging their drivers to break the speed limit.

I would agree with both paragraphs.

Competition provides motivation for people to push themselves harder than they would normally. Most people will still ride within their limits but will travel a bit deeper into the "pain cave." Unfortunately, not all people will ride within their limits.

Strava (and other sites like it) provide that motivation 24/7.

Did Strava encourage Mr. Flint to push himself? Yes.
Did this pushing himself lead to his death? Yes.
Is Strava responsible for his death? Not at all.

Strava did not encourage the rider to push himself. Strava only told him someone else was faster. The decision to push himself was his alone.

I guess I could sue Forbes Magazine next time I read the 100 richest people list, then decide to go rob a bank to try and overtake them on the list.

[Suvacrew offline]

As a Strava addict and advocate...I knew this suit was a while in coming. The local newspapers/blogs milked it for a bit as well. There may be another unrelated event that grabs Strava for another suit one too, as a cyclist in SF ran over an elderly man in a cross walk and killed him, he then posted it up on Strava.
But that said, Strava didn't make him (the late Mr Flint) put his leg over the bike, clip in, strap on the helmet and then bomb one of the steepest paved roads in the SF Bay Area for him to cross the yellow line and then go splat!!

The family grieves as the bread winner is gone....I fault the attorney that either stirred this one up themselves or didn't tell the family they were unreasonable and would be hard to find a real legal theory to apply.

America is losing it...and no one wants to take responsibility for their actions.

New headlines...yes they are fake but along the same lines as the Strava headlines.
Obese man sues spoon makers!!
Class Action Lawsuit by Type II Diabetes patients against Coke and Pepsi and Dr Pepper!!
Ugly girl who finds cosmetics too complicated to apply, sues mirror company!

Cheers,
Suva

[GregFin offline]

It all started with that idiot and the hot cup of McDonald's coffee...

People like to use that example as a posterchild of tort reform, but if you take a closer look at the facts in that case you will find, again, that there is some grey area. In that situation, McD's was selling coffee at 180-190 degrees -- blazing hot! Way too hot to actually drink without taking careful sips and way hotter than necessary to cause severe burns in seconds. Did she deserve the huge settlement she ultimately recieved in the end? Probably not. Was it totally her fault that she spent days in the hospital and had to get skin grafts to repair the damage? I don't think so.

Sorry, but that doesnt hold up to me.

Firstly, how do you make coffee at home? Either the machine boils the water, or you boil the water. water boils at 212 degrees. Coffee can be this hot. This is a fact of life.

Secondly, it is common knowledge among coffee ...enthusiasts?...that the water doesnt have to be boiled first to make the best coffee. Just shy of it actually. But anyways, you can bet the water will be in excess of 170 degrees for a decent cup.

Anyways, what I'm getting at is that any 10 year old knows that a brewed beverage ranges from hot to "F"ing hot. Its your own fault if you burn yourself with it.

Plus, she put it between her legs....seriously...asking for trouble. I could see if she drank it and damaged her mouth or throat and sued for that....but the product is meant to be consumed, not dumped in your lap.

My big beef with that situation is that it seemed to set a precident for lawsuits like it. The situation with Strava is a little different, but the principle is the same. You made a choice and paid for it. Whether you chose to place and spill a hot beverage in your lap or speed down a road on a bike sharing the space with cars....its your own fault.

BTW,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v. ... estaurants

If you care to read, it was found that even at 160 degrees, deep tissue burns can still be had in mere seconds.

Anyways, if we learned anything from the mcdonalds issue, just putting "cauting hot" could be good enough for future instances. Maybe strava needs to have a huge disclaimer on all their leaderboards etc about the dangers of biking and timing etc. Im not a member there so I cant see....but I'd bet they have disclaimers anyways. I've never been on a bike trail or bought anything for a bike that didnt say biking is dangerous and possibly deadly.

[skibum offline]

Funny--I've never used Strava--heck, I've never even seen Strava.

And yet, my past has numerous occasions with me trying to beat my personal best or known times of others on various routes. It's frustrating when you're having the ride of your life and you encounter a large group of pedestrians or equestrians and knowing that observing proper trail etiquette will cost you a new PB--but you do it anyway and live to ride another day.

Plenty of folks were doing this before the internet in informal clubs everywhere. Since the internet, just about every chat room or activity oriented web site has been used to brag about a time over a particular route.

This behavior is nothing new and Strava is no more liable than your local meetup group, shop ride or Singletracks.com!

I feel for the family and their loss, but that feeling goes away when they prove themselves to be nothing more than opportunistic, greedy @-holes.

[brianW offline]

Another example of the modern American get rich fast scheme.

[mtbgreg1 offline]

This is one of the most stupid things I have heard in a while. Strava only gives you a means of measuring your time and comparing to other people's times. No one can tell you that you need to be better than someone else, you decide that for yourself. It's time for people to start taking responsibility for their actions and quit blaming others. Enough of the horsecrap.

My thoughts and prayers go out to those who were affected, but the cyclist is the only one to blame.

Definitely agree.

Also, the day after I posted this I got an email saying that Strava had updated its terms of use... I skimmed through it, and it looks like they are trying even harder to warn people off from reckless behavior and protect themselves against future lawsuits.

[Jared13 offline]

Did Strava encourage Mr. Flint to push himself? Yes.
Did this pushing himself lead to his death? Yes.
Is Strava responsible for his death? Not at all.

Strava did not encourage the rider to push himself. Strava only told him someone else was faster. The decision to push himself was his alone.

I guess I could sue Forbes Magazine next time I read the 100 richest people list, then decide to go rob a bank to try and overtake them on the list.

Yes, the decision and responsibility was his alone, but Strava gave him the information that someone was faster. That encouraged him to go faster.
Knowledge by itself is meaningless. What the person does with said knowledge is what matters. Mr. Flint chose to bomb down a hill while exceeding the posted speed limit and it cost him his life. He could have done that later on, but for this particular instance he was bombing down the hill because from the information he received from Strava.

I would agree, suing Forbes would make about as much sense as this lawsuit.

[cynergy68 offline]

You can thank the liberals for all those frivolous lawsuits. Remember things like that on election day.

[muddyluxury offline]

I generally shy away from issues such as these; but no longer! This lawsuit is based in tv drama law - not actual law. I don't know all the details but any damage or distress this cyclist caused durring his demise is the only aspect that has any legal standing. If he smashed a car or signpost then his family is liable for the costs and damages and nothing more. Further the Lawyer that filed this case should have his law license revoked because he clearly has lost his way and succumb to chance of a quick buck. I grew up as a boy scout and was held accountable for my decisions and actions - there was no one for me to blame other than myself. Several years in the Army, and now in my professional life there is only one person accountable for my actions, ME.

To continue flogging this dead horse, it makes no difference if Strava informed the rider or not, it was his choice to disobey a posted traffic control sign (which I see roadies do all the time) be it a stop sign, speed limit sign or the double yellow line on the highway. Here in Virginia a bicycle must follow all the same laws as a motor vehicle the only difference is no license is required. At the end of the day Strava has grounds and I hope they do file a counter suit for fees and costs to defend themselves from this contrived law suit.

[mtbgreg1 offline]

A lawyer takes a look at lawsuit against Strava, and another possible lawsuit against the social media site for athletes:

http://bicycling.com/blogs/roadrights/2 ... ing-strava

For those who want to cut straight to the chase:

As I said, the Strava lawsuit raises a new legal question, and the law hasn’t been definitively developed yet, but I think it’s a very big stretch to attempt to say Strava is liable for the risks some of its members may take.

Research and drafting by Rick Bernardi, J.D.

[Spartan offline]

I agree its the bikers fault. Tragic and sad for all involved. I will say that that article greg linked is not very informative about the actual case. The major crux of the families argument is that when you lose KOM (King of The MT.) Strava send you emails egging you on and telling you that your time was beat. Therefore, the family feels like Strava should take some responsibility.

[mtbgreg1 offline]

I agree its the bikers fault. Tragic and sad for all involved. I will say that that article greg linked is not very informative about the actual case. The major crux of the families argument is that when you lose KOM (King of The MT.) Strava send you emails egging you on and telling you that your time was beat. Therefore, the family feels like Strava should take some responsibility.

Which article are you referring to, the second one or the first one? I think the first one addresses that.

[Spartan offline]

I agree its the bikers fault. Tragic and sad for all involved. I will say that that article greg linked is not very informative about the actual case. The major crux of the families argument is that when you lose KOM (King of The MT.) Strava send you emails egging you on and telling you that your time was beat. Therefore, the family feels like Strava should take some responsibility.

Which article are you referring to, the second one or the first one? I think the first one addresses that.

Greg,I just clicked your link. It talks about not putting out cones or verifying courses.etc Within that link I also went to the news affiliate story with video... WHatev. I agree it a BS lawsuit. Furthermore, I use the crap out of Strava (check out my madd rodie skillz here i'm in 2nd place but tied with first place bc me and KOM rode together and he hit stop before me... http://app.strava.com/segments/1688694 ) We specifically went out that day with the purpose of setting the KOM...I love Strava! However, I read this article where the Lawyer is totally in favor of the lawsuit..Its the first place where I have seen it mentioned that: Strava Sends out a taunting email. It probably exaggerated that its a "taunting" email. Nonetheless, its the basis of this guys point of view. He's a injury lawyer from Miami. Check out his point of view..

http://www.miamiinjurylawyerblawg.com/2 ... trava.html